Muslim Rapes: Western Women Must Change Culture And Appearance To Adapt To Influx Of Male Muslims

We cannot allow America to become separated by languange, religion, culture or race. We are Americans first. Immigrants need to adapt to our way of life.

Wow, Bodhi. That statement is wrong on a cellular level. Try it this way -

We are humans first, and we are American. A nation comprised of many languages, cultures, races and religions. We adapt to the needs of an ever-changing world.

Better now, don't ya think?

Better now, don't ya think?

Ah, no. Not even remotely.

Perhaps you did not see this article:

A German judge has stirred a storm of protest here by citing the Koran in turning down a German Muslim woman's request for a fast-track divorce on the ground that her husband beat her.

In a remarkable ruling that underlines the tension between Muslim customs and European laws, the judge, Christa Datz-Winter, said that the couple came from a Moroccan cultural milieu, in which she said it was common for husbands to beat their wives. The Koran, she wrote, sanctions such physical abuse.

A great example of the multi-culti belief system at work. Yes, we know you live in Germany, and we have a German Constitution and German laws and expectations, but you are a Muslim, and we have to respect your culture also. So, take your beating like a good Muslim woman and shut up. You knew what you were getting into when you married this guy.

In America, it is getting there, but is not as bad. Muslim checkers at Target don't have to scan swine, taxi drivers can refuse the blind. How far are we from blaming American girls for their own rapes? Not far I don't think.

I'm not talking about the news story. I was addressing your ridiculously narrow comment.

The bottom line is, in any country, everyone must adapt all the time. Just as the immigrants should work towards assimilating to their new environment, the people who are already there have to adapt to a changing population. It's called life.

"Multiculturalism teaches that it is everyone else who must adapt." That's a little more accurate. Yes, immigrants need to adapt to American values and culture, but American values and culture, by sheer merit of exposure to other viewpoints, changes over time.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind the events described in the article though. Even while keeping cultural sensitivity in mind, rape is illegal. I don't care how provocatively somone is dressed, if she says no then you stop.

the people who are already there have to adapt to a changing population.

Why?

This is disgusting.

Yet another example for the absolute need of assimilation of immigrants into American society. We cannot allow America to become separated by languange, religion, culture or race. We are Americans first. Immigrants need to adapt to our way of life.

Umm, America is nothing but immigrants. If you want to throw off the assimilation of immigrants, the first thing you need to do Bodhi is unlearn English, and choose one of the many Native American Indian dialects. Then you need to shun the colonies and move to a reservation. If anything, you and I are the ones who don't belong here.

Unless you have Native American blood running through your veins, you are the descendant of an immigrant and if Native Americans had the same ideas as you, you'd be the outsider who needs to adapt or go home.

Deal with it and stop being so xenophobic.

Deal with it and stop being so xenophobic.

I don't think Bodhi is being xenophobic as trying to uphold a certain set of cultural standards, such as YOU DON'T BEAT YOUR WOMAN. Or, Just because a girl is sexy, you can force her to have sex with you. These are base values that we, as a society, aren't willing to part with just to be more "culturally sensitive".

A separate rant:

Personally, My Opinion, to which I have a right, is that the culture we are discussing is a male dominated, unrealistic and wrongheaded piece of work that needs to disappear. Most leftist weepies would abhor my "narrow, limited" ideas. Good. They have a right to their opinions, too. And I served in the military and was willing to die to protect their rights to those opinions.

OOPS!! The above should read: Just because a girl is sexy, you can't force her to have sex with you.

Ever heard of Dearborn Michigan?
One highly integrated and totally functional community out there, about 20 miles from me on the east side of Detroit. No "sky rocketing" rape problem over the past half century or so of this influx of Arabs/ Muslims etc. In fact one of the more culturally curious scenes is the fully burka'ed women driving giant SUV's talking on LV patterned cell phones. Leave it to good ole midwestern consumerism!

we go through this crap all the time. it was the irish, the chinese, the poles
america doesnt belong to the rich white christain european and as a free country it grows and changes, that is life
more and more of our population speaks spanish, you can try to hold back the tide with silly laws but you cant stop people in a free society from molding that society which their cultures.
no it is silly to expect women to adapt, i suppose the muslims will first, but we have laws against rape and thats all we need.. most crimes have some sort of group that you can attribute a majority of the crime to, from knocking over gas stations to stealing billions from stock holders.
I guess we should just oppress everyone.. if you are poor you cant own a gun, if you are rich you cant trade stocks..but this is america and we cant do that despite they commit those crimes with more frequency.

Assimilation is not possible in a country like America. What is the standard that we use for assimilating? At the beginning of our country we had many groups of immigrants, all speaking different languages. English is just the language of the time, not the language of America, and anyone who says otherwise obviously hasn't read much history.

I'm assuming you a middle class white man who speaks English, and that is what you think people should assimilate to, but by your logic, and I'm speaking to Bodhi1, once our country is mostly Spanish speaking Mexicans, which is the way we will be soon, we all need to start acting according to Mexican culture. It's not quite as nice when we are no longer the majority.

off the coast of sc is a small island where they have spoken gullah a slave language that is a mix of many european languages. and have spoke this since before there was an "usa"
The amish speak a german language and have since the beginning of the us.
the amish are probably more christain than any of you and do not try to impose their lifestyles on others..
so question, would we force these people to assimilate since they have had their own cultures in this country since before it was a country?
what happen to freedom and voting with your feet.. this country is supposed to be melting pot.

I know lets only allow WHite, english, blond hair blue eyed christains into this country as we know they are the "finished" race the top of evolution and we shall wipe out the mistakes left on this planet.. the nappy hairs, the brown eyes, all the unfinished and inferior humans. Or we could just paint them all white.

I'm just really amused that Bodhi1 thinks that a Norwegian professor bloviating about what Norwegian women should do to accomodate Muslim immigrants in Norway says something about "the absolute need of assimilation of immigrants into American society." American society and Norwegian society may be (probably are) totally different types of societies. Their conditions and our conditions aren't necessarily the same. A false dilemma is presented as if the only two choices are "total assimilation into American society" or "tolerating rape in the name of multi-culturalism."

There are more than two choices, here.

I think if America fiercely promulgates the ideas upon which the country was initially founded-- government deriving its power from the people, individual rights considered inherent rather than granted by the state, and the state's proper role as that of protecting individuals (and their rights) from enemies foreign and domestic-- we're not really likely to have a problem, are we?

Here in America, once you look a couple of generations down the road from any set of initial immigrants (instead of pointing at immigrants and saying, "Assimilate faster!"), you start noticing that they all wind up assimilated to a large degree, anyway.

Oh, and BTW-- somebody hand Unni Wikan a big old cup of shut-the-@!$%#-up. Blaming women for being raped is like blaming robbery victims for being robbed. "He was totally asking for it! He was carrying around a bunch of money!" But you know, in the spirit of multiculturalism, let's treat these muslim rapists the way their society demands they be treated. Let's pile a big mound of stones in the city square, and let Norway's rape victims each get a free throw. Somehow I think old Unni'd be singin' a different tune, if that were seriously up for consideration.

I'm just really amused that Bodhi1 thinks that a Norwegian professor bloviating about what Norwegian women should do to accomodate Muslim immigrants in Norway says something about "the absolute need of assimilation of immigrants into American society."

I'm always happy to amuse people, but I don't find multiculturalism amusing. I find it destructive.

The above example is just one of the multi-culti mindset that the host nation must adapt to the immigrant. Across Europe, laws are being usurped in appreciation of Sharia law. As I noted above, a multi-culti judge said a woman had to stay married to a man who beat her, even though it was against German laws. It isn't amusing to believe that kind of thinking shouldn't be a part of American society. But that is one of the dangers of multiculturalism. And we already see it happening in America, in places like Minneapolis, where clerks refuse to scan pork products and cab drivers refuse to carry blind people with seeing eye dogs.

How far will this trend be taken before drastic measures have to be taken that are met by stronger resistance? It is easier to handle it now, before it gets out of hand, than to try to correct it later.

A false dilemma is presented as if the only two choices are "total assimilation into American society" or "tolerating rape in the name of multi-culturalism."

Those were not my words. I said this is the result of a multicultural mindset, where the host countries customs, languages and laws are not as important as the immigrant's belief system. I made the assertion that this mindset is dangerous and America needed to assimilate immigrants to our society to avoid the many problems that the majority of Europe is having today. We need to welcome immigrants and let them now we appreciate them contributing to America as a whole. I don't think it is out of hand to say, "Sorry. That's not how we do things here." or "You can't beat your wife. It's against the law." or even, "You won't pick up blind people with dogs? You're fired."

Here in America, once you look a couple of generations down the road from any set of initial immigrants (instead of pointing at immigrants and saying, "Assimilate faster!"), you start noticing that they all wind up assimilated to a large degree, anyway.

Have you been to the American Southwest lately?

Yet another example for the absolute need of assimilation of immigrants into American society. We cannot allow America to become separated by language, religion, culture or race. We are Americans first. Immigrants need to adapt to our way of life.

Yet another example of ignorant racism - what a shocking comment.

Immigrants need to adapt to our way of life.

What on earth does that mean? Who gets to decide? If the great bhodi decides Gay marriage and French wine are bad I guess my French gay wine drinkers will need to adapt. etc. Shocking ignorance and intolerance.

Growing up in Canada we used to get our own propaganda:

The USA was a melting pot. Canada was a mosaic - meaning lots of varied cultures, respected and adding to the character of the country. I always sort of liked that better than melting in.

Thanks for yet another ad hominem attck from the left.

Anything else you want to call me chill? Racist, ignorant, pompous...keep going man, don't stop now.

The above example is just one of the multi-culti mindset that the host nation must adapt to the immigrant. Across Europe, laws are being usurped in appreciation of Sharia law. As I noted above, a multi-culti judge said a woman had to stay married to a man who beat her, even though it was against German laws.

I know of a case of an American woman that sued a Nigerian billionaire to get half of his assets. The couple were married according to Nigerian traditional law that allows a man to have infinite numbers of wives. The American judge ruled that she couldn't get half of a billion dollar estate. Wisely too. Extrapolate anything you wish from the German judgement.

but I don't find multiculturalism amusing. I find it destructive.

I find that sentiment amusing. In the tiniest American town I have lived in, I have found many more ethnic communities living together and sharing culture than I have found in large European capitals. America is already multi-cultural. Much of what is, today, American culture was once cultural to far away countries. Multiculturalism is the American experience. Otherwise what really is American culture?

I don't think it is out of hand to say, "Sorry. That's not how we do things here." or "You can't beat your wife. It's against the law." or even, "You won't pick up blind people with dogs? You're fired."

There's nothing wrong with any of that. The law is the law and must be followed. However the real debate is whether host cultures need to accomodate immigrants. The answer is yes. Otherwise you create parallel cultures. You can't force people to assimilate. You just can't.

As someone who has lived in many countries, I know how much an immigrant has to adjust. Hell, I know how much you have to just even when you only go for a 2 week vacation.

The problem with Europe and why they have a looming racial crisis is that they don't want to accomodate immigrants. Even racists like Mark Steyn have admitted this is why Europe's muslims are more militant than America's.

I think this attack on multiculturalism has three angles;

1. There are the xenophobic racists and xenophobic non racists.
2. There are the American nationalists who can't get over 9/11.
3. There are those who just fear change and don't understand culture and society.
4. There are people who just want to take advantage of an issue that has resonance with many.
5. There are those who hate Muslims and use this as a code for "invading their countires, and forcefully converting them to christianity".

The larger part of it is hate.

And we already see it happening in America, in places like Minneapolis, where clerks refuse to scan pork products and cab drivers refuse to carry blind people with seeing eye dogs Or pharmacists refusing to dispense birth control, or nutjobs shooting their roommates because they are "the devil." I agree. And that's why I think a firm commitment to secular government and an absolute respect for individual human rights is far more important than coddling xenophobes and religious ideologues.

I said this is the result of a multicultural mindset, where the host countries customs, languages and laws are not as important as the immigrant's belief system. I made the assertion that this mindset is dangerous and America needed to assimilate immigrants to our society to avoid the many problems that the majority of Europe is having today. Customs and languages don't have anything to do with it. By default, immigrants have to learn to deal with the language. As long as immigrant customs don't violate the law, they can keep whatever customs they like. To paraphrase Jefferson, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg for immigrants to retain whatever customs they like, so long as they are respectful of the rights of others. The only thing immigrants HAVE to accomodate themselves to is the law. Indeed, you've noted yourself that if the law were being followed, this would not be a problem here, in Germany or in Norway. These are all examples of problems of failing to follow the law, not specifically failure to jam the host culture down the throats of immigrants.

Most immigrants assimilate just fine, thank you.

Have you been to the American Southwest lately? I used to live in Phoenix, thank you very much. I doubt there's anything you can tell me about the American Soutwest that I haven't already experienced firsthand.

Thanks for yet another ad hominem attck from the left.

Anything else you want to call me chill? Racist, ignorant, pompous...keep going man, don't stop now.

My comment was certainly not Ad Hominen - see description. I called the comment ignorant racism and in part explained why.

It would be Ad Hominen to call you a stupid idiot and to ignore the comment.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument.

Novanglus, I wasn't trying to give the impression that I thought you were denigrating Muslims, I was merely commenting on the fact that I thought Bodhi's response to this was amusingly over the top in terms of what it portends for America.

I'm in Athens, Greece, at the moment (where it's 9:30 in the morning, and the sun is shining). When I turn on the television, I can watch Al Jazeera, if that's any indication of "muslim friendliness". What I don't see when I walk down the street are women in burqas, devout Muslims praying in the streets, or any sort of "Sharia police." My experience of Europe hasn't been one that suggests the laws are being rewritten to appease Muslims. Of course, that's a subjective experience, and may not count for much, but I'm curious: you bring up the Danish riots and the French riots as though they explain a change that you're purporting in this article on what a Norwegian sociologist has said-- what are the actual changes in law that have occurred in Denmark, France, or Norway? Seriously, I don't know the answer to that, and I'm curious whether you do.

If we're going to suggest that Europe is rewriting its laws to appease Muslims, maybe what we really need to do is explore exactly how those laws are being rewritten.

That you have a sociologist in Norway who wants to blame rape on the victim isn't terribly surprising (we have that here in the States); that you could show Norway actually rewriting its laws to allow "Muslims" to get away with it-- THAT would be a story.

When I turn on the television, I can watch Al Jazeera, if that's any indication of "muslim friendliness". What I don't see when I walk down the street are women in burqas, devout Muslims praying in the streets, or any sort of "Sharia police." My experience of Europe hasn't been one that suggests the laws are being rewritten to appease Muslims.

I'm in Ankara, Turkey, and I don't see any of that either. And the laws here are being written by Muslims...

And the laws here are being written by Muslims...

Who know full well if they try to implement a religious state, the army will kill them. Ataturk left them that legacy.

I applaud Novanglus for seeding this. It is a very sensitive issue but it does need to be discussed in an open, frank manner without the inevitable flamebaiting that the issue tends to raise anyway.

The last paragraph in Novanglus' comment 1.23 above touches on Europe. The mindset of pacification is at the heart of a changing landscape and of concern throughout the West.

Novanglus - realize you have shortend your title. It is still a bit too long. Distorts the conversation tracker view big time.

something like "Is the need for cultural pacification redefining multi-culturalism in Europe?" may possibly have nurtured the open debate that you sought without forcing people to take sides. Maybe too late as views are already polarized on the thread.

I like how Bodhi1 mentions examples of judges who ignore their countries' laws and employees who won't do their jobs and people keep attacking him for supposedly advocating that only white English-speaking Christians be allowed into America.

Bodhi1: A German judge has stirred a storm of protest here by citing the Koran in turning down a German Muslim woman's request for a fast-track divorce on the ground that her husband beat her.

Response: I'm assuming you a middle class white man who speaks English, and that is what you think people should assimilate to, but by your logic, and I'm speaking to Bodhi1,

Response: I know lets only allow WHite, english, blond hair blue eyed christains into this country as we know they are the "finished" race the top of evolution and we shall wipe out the mistakes left on this planet.. the nappy hairs, the brown eyes, all the unfinished and inferior humans. Or we could just paint them all white.

Bodhi1: I said this is the result of a multicultural mindset, where the host countries customs, languages and laws are not as important as the immigrant's belief system.

Response: delete for obscenity

Maybe you all are overreacting to the word assimilate. I don't think Bodhi1 was picturing a borg like assimilation. Just asserting that the American legal system cannot be replaced by some other system, and that people that take a job as a checkout person should scan all items. And yes, some of you responded with the pharmacists who won't sell birth control - they should have to do their jobs as well. Why the assumption that Bodhi1 is racist or xenophobic? It's a ridiculous assumption. Those are personal issues, not policy positions. The two are not interchangeable. I favor English as the national language since it's the most widely spoken. Every country has one (or more) official language(s) except the USA. Am I a racist xenophobe? I also favor completely open borders with unlimited immigration, but that cannot work if immigrants wall themselves into enclaves and don't deal with the larger culture. That always happens to some degree (Little Italy, Chinatown, etc.) but that has always been viewed as a transitional state before, not as an acceptable final result.

Maybe you all are overreacting to the word assimilate. I don't think Bodhi1 was picturing a borg like assimilation. Just asserting that the American legal system cannot be replaced by some other system, and that people that take a job as a checkout person should scan all items.

Brian, thank you. That is a good way of looking at it. I was stunned at the hatred and anger towards me by asserting that America should not be separated but closer together, and that multi-culturalism was dangerous.

Did I say somewhere that people should give up their heritage? Did I say that foreign foods should be banned? Did I say that immigrants were bad for America?

No, I said that you should adapt to America when you come to America and that you should not expect, let alone demand, that America change for you. I said that immigration should focus on assimilation to bring immigrants into America with less chance of culture shock or feeling like an outsider.

If you can't handle that, then grow up and disagree with rational, civil discourse, or just shut up. Comments like I see above attacking me personally are totally out of line.

No it's not.

Seems to be broken in the seeded story as well. Sorry.

Wheel,

Nice summary. Clear, concise and correct. Well done.

Good points up until point 3. Rape is not the way of any country.

Immigration means that immigrants have to adjust to their hosts, and the hosts have to accomodate the immigrants as well. That's the way of the world, and has been since the beginning of time.

and the hosts have to accomodate the immigrants as well.

Nope. When my great-granddad left Switzerland for New Orleans, he knew he was going to have to adapt to an entirely new way of life. He learned English, haltingly, and banned German in his household, except when he spoke to his older relatives. His employers did not learn German, and did not adapt to his particularly virulent anti-Catholic feelings to help welcome him to these shores. When you emigrate, the responsibility is wholly on yourself, period. It might be nice for the host country to be accommodating, but there is zero moral imperative for them to do so.

The utter silence of the treatment of non-Muslim "guest workers" in the Gulf speaks volumes to the weakness of the multiculturalist viewpoint. It is incapable of persuading those who oppose it, yet cannot bring itself to actually criticize, because that would be culturally insensitive.

No you're very wrong. Europe emerged into one single observable Western culture because cultural practices and attitudes were adopted. Immigration was a big part of that.

St. Patrick's day is now a fixture in American culture. Immigration.

Doner Kebabs are an accepted part of the German eating culture. Immigration.

Synagogues abound in even the most Catholic Countries. Immigration.

We can pull out another 1,000,000 examples.

English culture became the most vibrant European culture and London the most vibrant European city. London adapted to immigrants. Immigrants from the moment they arrive have to adapt and have no choice but to do so.

Exactly. That's what I was saying. Both sides have to adapt.

Evolve or die.

Women born and raised in a country that doesn't believe in burquas should NEVER adapt to people coming in and insisting that b/c they like burquas, all women have to wear them.

What a terrible example. We haven't seen any country where immigrants are insisting that their hosts wear burkas. It is almost entirely possible that that will be the case either.

one of the many ironies of the frankly racist comments about immigrants needing to be assimilated is that these americans want them to speak ENGLISH not AMERICAN

Well, chill, American is somewhat different than from English isn't it?

What a terrible example. We haven't seen any country where immigrants are insisting that their hosts wear burkas.

That seems to be exactly what's happening.

Unni Wikan, a professor of social anthropology at the University of Oslo, in 2001 said that "Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes" because Muslim men found their manner of dress provocative. The professor's conclusion was not that Muslim men living in the West needed to adjust to Western norms, but the exact opposite: "Norwegian women must realize that we live in a Multicultural society and adapt themselves to it."

That seems to be exactly what's happening.

Brian I beg you. A Norwegian professor is an immigrant insisting that his hosts adapt his culture?

Maybe the news media is to pre-occupied with who fathered Anna Nicole's baby to worry about raped girls in Norway.

Nice way to dismiss information that isn't convenient to your beliefs or perception of life there "Glinda".

Europe has indeed seemed to go pretty far out of its way to accommodate and appease it's Muslim immigrant population.

The legacy of Auschwitz et al. will do that to the psyche of an entire continent.

But, honestly, the rule of law--which I would imagine is pretty well established in Norway--should prevail here.

Elements of Sharia law and Wahabist teachings are becoming accepted more and more in Europe seemingly to appease Muslim elements of their population.

I wrote a related article on this topic a while ago discussing some very revealing Pew Research Center findings on Religious Patriotism.

I think it will help shed more light on the multiculturalism aspect of this thread and benefit anyone interested in how Europe, the US and the Middle East tend to view their national identities.

How is it inaccurate?

Europe has indeed seemed to go pretty far out of its way to accommodate and appease it's Muslim immigrant population.

You say this on what authority? You have lots of muslim friends that have been appeased in Europe or are you just saying it cause you feel like it.

In many cases it is just not true. For example, One of the causes of muslim unrest in Europe is the never ending racism they face in the mainstream job market.

Put Mohammed as your name and send your resume to a top company in many of these countries and it will be instantly binned. Have a certain postal code (zip code) in a Paris banlieu (suburb) and your resume will also not be opened.

If you continue this type of seeding, well, enjoy your stay on my ignore list.

Zaki, number one fan of the ignore list ;)

And just to clarify, these are all comment from Zaki,

I just use the ignore feature. It's an amazing breakthrough in Web 2.0 technology.

Enjoy your stay on my ignore list.

don't be disgusted. We have an ignore feature now

who needs to offer professional help when you got the ignore button.

Feel free to bring him back, he'll just be on my ignore list.

Opps, forgot about these,

You have got to be @!$%#ting me. Not only am I marking you as unlawful/misconduct, but this is worthy of putting you on my ignore list.

I now understand more and more why we now offer the "ignore this author" button

Thanks Zaki, I hope someday to make your Ignore list (If I haven't already ;)

not yet ajs, it's kinda like my shout-out to Stephen Colbert. What the hell does he call his?

YOU'RE ON NOTICE! -Stephen Colbert

or something like that. Bahaha.

Good comment, thank you for saving me some time... this thread is getting too long., and i have other things to do.

I dislike this seed as a Norwegian-American, I am proud of Norway for not being succeptible to all the Islamophobia fear tactics and welcoming immigrants. And I am offended as a supporter of 'multi-culturalism', or as I like to call it, "living with other people". And I am offended as an anthropologist b.c. that one comment they took from the anthro guy is just ridiculous and out of context... He is tarnishing his profession if he said that.

Psycho gang rape participants should go to jail. Norway and its gov't are not involved in a conspiracy to change this mandate.

I have not used the ignore feature for anyone yet. I am considering it,... although this seed is good for laughs and shaking my head.

"Christian serial killer targeting promiscuous women on religious grounds"... but it would be no more stupid than what is happening here.

Jack the ripper did not use his christian faith as an excuse the way these "muslims" have.

Source?

Jack the ripper did not use his christian faith as an excuse the way these "muslims" have.

(Ahem)

Jack the Ripper is an alias given to an unidentified serial killer (or killers) active in the largely impoverished Whitechapel area and adjacent districts of London, England in the latter half of 1888.

- From the Wikipedia article

We haven't a clue what JtR's motives were, because we still don't know who he (they?) was.

We haven't a clue what JtR's motives were, because we still don't know who he (they?) was.

I realize that, I'm just saying that he\she\they did not, in any historical text I've read, claim any "faith based" motivation, unlike some other criminals who say their religion demands obedience, or else. They assume they are the providers of the "or else" part of it. . .

Yes, and it's a tough job! Especially when you figure in the fact that so many immigrants don't even want to be immigrants: think about all the kids, esp. teenagers who were ripped out of their social circles and really had no choice.

It's hard enough being 16 or 17 when you have firm roots; take that away and it's very easy to lose your footing.

There is so much in the mix when it comes to immigration; it's a constant struggle between passion, compassion and the law.